Why Orks Don't Suck... again

This is the last post on the topic of Orks and their level of sucking unless I combine all of the links for easy reference. Once again it is a post by Nathan Fluger which is in response to what Mercer posted which was in response to what Stelek posted...

It appears I'm not the only one who saw Stelek's post about Orks last week. The crew from Blood of Kittens also gave their 2 cents also. I made a post on the blog and I got a reply from the author of said post; Fluger. This is my original article Why Orks suck and below is Fluger's reply:

Thanks for posting Mercer! Here's my responses to your article!

1: The only thing that is really an issue is AV14. And AV14 is usually on vehicles that are expensive. Too many and my opponent is running out of stuff that can actually do damage to me. Being alive at the end of the game with one land raider isn't that useful if I have most of my forces intact and contesting multiple objectives. Also, you can use vehicles to interdict and keep these vehicles at bay. Trukks and buggies excell at this. Just move up to within an inch of the Land Raider and force it to go around or attempt to ram through (very unlikley with its S5 hit and it needs to blow up the vehicle). Also, if they are moving fast enough to be hard to hit, then they aren't being able to do much damage.

2: Trukks are fine for what they do; allowing a unit to move quickly and assault is great. The potential for a 26" charge is pretty sweet.

3: I think the best build is a mix of infantry and mech with long range shooting and resiliency built in. You don't need to do any of those lists to make that work. 

4: Termagants don't have a better weapon than a shoota boy! They're also T3 vs T4 which is a huge advantage for the Orks. The ork has 2 s3 attacks all the time as well. Furious charge works just fine IMO. 

5: I disagree that Orks are close-combat oriented; they are certainly close-range oriented; but can dish out crazy amounts of shooting if needed. Fleet is unnecessary and most of the long-range cover-denying stuff isn't that worrisome. Its all about target priority! Take out the units that take away your cover and spread out.

6: Again, fearless is great for not getting pinned earlier, auto-passing tank shock tests and lots of other things. I seriously see it as a balancing factor. In 4th edition, those big walls of guys were stupidly hard to get rid of.

And here's my reply:

Hey Fluger!

Firstly, nice article! As mentioned I will write a sort of "reply" next week - stay tuned! However some of your comments have made me see things from a different angle.

1. I agree on armour 14 not being vastly common; though it is something the Orks struggle with. Armour 12 is the average I think. 

2. I cannot see how you get a 26" charge because if the Trukk moves 18" you cannot bail out - so no charge. At the end of the day Trukks are weak as paper I do not favour them, you must agree on the weakness? Battlewagons all the way for me. We interrupt the article to bring this point from the discussion...

i would just like to mention on the 26" charge. its a 12" move on the truck (12"), the deploy two inches out as per disembark (14"), run in the shooting phase for a possible 6 (20"). call the waaagh and charge 6 (26"). if the run ends up being a scoot, its a 21" charge 

Made by an anonymous poster... 

3. I either go all mech or all infantry. I did mention various builds on that post (which you probably saw) so I guess there is a few more builds than I thought, I mean moajority of armies have common builds. The Orks can do certain less cooler and new builds so to speak.

4. I think I overlooked a few things there! I just thought from the top of my head Termagants were a better buy - btw was it you who commented as anoymous on that post?

5. Well they are because they have furious charge and buckets of attacks so sitting back won't be to your advantage as these is army wide rule and stats. Sure they can do volume of fire, but BS2? C'mon hardly a shooty army when you cannot hit a lot! I've had 45 Loota shots and about 10 of those may hit home.

6. Yes and no. It is for the things you said but it can be used against you like in combat. I guess it's a balancing issue like you said.

The difference between my opinions and Steleks is he seems to think Orks are utter shite. Nothing is every black or white... the interwebz is great at distorting an individuals opinions. I personally like them and play them often, however there is quite a few poor units in the codex. 

So, in a nutshell while armour 14 isn't common it still is a problem for Orks. The impression I get from Stelek is that Orks are doomed against armour 14. They certainly struggle against is and the only solution is a power klaw from a Warboss, which isn't reliable. However I get the impression from Steleks rants that armour 14 is every where and Orks will die. Perhaps in tournaments, though in general gameplay I've only fought Land Raiders once - and that was 2 years ago! So I agree with BoK that Raiders are not common; however Orks no doubt have issues with them. Hoping not to face against a Dual Raider list is not a tactic... it is also a good example of how tournaments do not accurately reflect the wider 40k gaming community.

Whatever Trukks can do they're still weak cardboard boxes on wheels. Mass Trukks will do, but important units i.e Nobz etc need a Battlewagon, which comes down to unit support and multiple threat. 

As mentioned I always prefer pure mech or pure infantry. As mentioned in my original article Orks have a few builds, while I believe this is more than Steleks mono build they certainly don't have many flexible and plenty builds like Space Marines or Imperial Guard for example. Plus the builds which are common are either well known i.e Nob Bikers or Kan Wall, and the Kan Wall will fail to cover denying weaponary - Imperial Guard Hellhound? Yes please! I smell roast Ork! 

Ok, perhaps a Ork Boy is better than a Termagant... 

Orks are definately close combat orientated. A army which is mostly BS2 isn't good at shooting and when the army has furious charge as a army special rule that definately makes them close combat. So combat is the way for Orks, not shooting, no matter how many shots. 

Fearless isn't good. Sure you can auto pass pinning tests but if you get tied up in close combat and start taking wounds and then lose combat you're going to get splattered. Fearless is just annoying, it's not really a benefit, the cons out weigh the pros. 

So looking at both articles much of Steleks comments still apply. I think the armour 14 comment while is true it is exaggerated how common Orks actually run into it. While there isn't a mono build, Orks certainly do lack builds but more than Stelek gives credit for. The rest however is how it is. 

- Mercer in Orks don't suck ...?